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	<title>Comments on: Despite Good News About Broadband Adoption, Vint Cerf Calls for Nationalization (sort of, maybe, a little bit)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/</link>
	<description>Technology &#38; Telecommunications Policy Discussion</description>
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		<title>By: Michael Turk</title>
		<link>http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/comment-page-1/#comment-1091</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Turk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:50:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/#comment-1091</guid>
		<description>Amos - 

NCTA is not an ideological entity when it comes to the discussion of free market solutions versus government solutions.  In fact, just last week the association&#039;s president posted &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cabletechtalk.com/broadband/2009/01/29/kyle-mcslarrow-on-the-broadband-stimulus-package/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a video explaining the industry&#039;s position on government&#039;s role in promoting broadband deployment and adoption.&lt;/a&gt;

There is most certainly a role for the federal government in promoting broadband.

However, let me address some of the points you made, and why they&#039;re simply not accurate.

&lt;blockquote&gt;The US has fallen from 4th to 15th in terms of percentage of the population which has broadband internet access because our internet services aren’t nationalized and/or under enough government regulation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually, the reason we have slipped from 4th to 15th has just as much to do with the flawed metrics being used to make that comparison.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cabletechtalk.com/tech-discussions/2008/02/07/all-things-being-equal-all-things-are-not-equal/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I wrote extensively on this problem last year.&lt;/a&gt;  If every country reached 100% adoption, the US would still be ranked 20th due to several factors which skew the results - including household size, inclusion/exclusion of T-1 lines and business connections, etc.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Would you rather live in Japan where the maximum bandwidth is 1000 MB/s or the US where the maximum is 50 MB/s?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cabletechtalk.com/tech-discussions/2008/02/08/the-truth-about-japanese-broadband/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;I also wrote about the myth of Japanese broadband.&lt;/a&gt; While it is true that they have services available at those speeds, the majority of the country can do no better than DSL. The cost also ends up being more than is typically claimed since you must purchase your connection and your access separately.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I doubt any public telecommunications company would ever consider cutting the bandwidth for Peer-to-Peer activities like Comcast did. I doubt that net neutrality would even be an issue if we had a nationalized system.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That&#039;s a claim that many like to make, but one that just doesn&#039;t fly.  As an example, take your average college campus.  Campuses are probably the closest thing to the model of nationalized broadband with connections to all students made available on an equal basis.

However, college campuses, just like private networks, have exactly the same problem with network congestion because some users consume more of the available bandwidth than others.  Many ban P2P applications entirely, but all employ management techniques similar to those employed by corporations.  Those campuses have no economic incentive to protect, so how do you explain their use of the same methods?

The fact is, the management of networks and the challenges with provision of broadband services are not a myth created by evil corporations.  They are common problems facing all network operators and ones the cable industry is working hard to solve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amos &#8211; </p>
<p>NCTA is not an ideological entity when it comes to the discussion of free market solutions versus government solutions.  In fact, just last week the association&#8217;s president posted <a href="http://www.cabletechtalk.com/broadband/2009/01/29/kyle-mcslarrow-on-the-broadband-stimulus-package/" rel="nofollow">a video explaining the industry&#8217;s position on government&#8217;s role in promoting broadband deployment and adoption.</a></p>
<p>There is most certainly a role for the federal government in promoting broadband.</p>
<p>However, let me address some of the points you made, and why they&#8217;re simply not accurate.</p>
<blockquote><p>The US has fallen from 4th to 15th in terms of percentage of the population which has broadband internet access because our internet services aren’t nationalized and/or under enough government regulation.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, the reason we have slipped from 4th to 15th has just as much to do with the flawed metrics being used to make that comparison.  <a href="http://www.cabletechtalk.com/tech-discussions/2008/02/07/all-things-being-equal-all-things-are-not-equal/" rel="nofollow">I wrote extensively on this problem last year.</a>  If every country reached 100% adoption, the US would still be ranked 20th due to several factors which skew the results &#8211; including household size, inclusion/exclusion of T-1 lines and business connections, etc.</p>
<blockquote><p>Would you rather live in Japan where the maximum bandwidth is 1000 MB/s or the US where the maximum is 50 MB/s?</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://www.cabletechtalk.com/tech-discussions/2008/02/08/the-truth-about-japanese-broadband/" rel="nofollow">I also wrote about the myth of Japanese broadband.</a> While it is true that they have services available at those speeds, the majority of the country can do no better than DSL. The cost also ends up being more than is typically claimed since you must purchase your connection and your access separately.</p>
<blockquote><p>I doubt any public telecommunications company would ever consider cutting the bandwidth for Peer-to-Peer activities like Comcast did. I doubt that net neutrality would even be an issue if we had a nationalized system.</p></blockquote>
<p>That&#8217;s a claim that many like to make, but one that just doesn&#8217;t fly.  As an example, take your average college campus.  Campuses are probably the closest thing to the model of nationalized broadband with connections to all students made available on an equal basis.</p>
<p>However, college campuses, just like private networks, have exactly the same problem with network congestion because some users consume more of the available bandwidth than others.  Many ban P2P applications entirely, but all employ management techniques similar to those employed by corporations.  Those campuses have no economic incentive to protect, so how do you explain their use of the same methods?</p>
<p>The fact is, the management of networks and the challenges with provision of broadband services are not a myth created by evil corporations.  They are common problems facing all network operators and ones the cable industry is working hard to solve.</p>
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		<title>By: Amos Batto</title>
		<link>http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/comment-page-1/#comment-1090</link>
		<dc:creator>Amos Batto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/#comment-1090</guid>
		<description>You free market advocates seem to always put ideology before empirical reality. What the numbers show is that citizens who live in countries which either nationalize their telecommunications or place them under heavy government regulation get the best internet service. The US has fallen from 4th to 15th in terms of percentage of the population which has broadband internet access because our internet services aren&#039;t nationalized and/or under enough government regulation. 

You guys seem to have an irrational fear of the government, without realizing that governments are composed of their citizenry and they reflect both the virtues and faults of their citizens. If the citizens are lazy and passive, governments mismanage and abuse their power, but in countries where the citizenry take an active role and demand results from their governments, they get better services at a cheaper cost. Would you rather live in Japan where the maximum bandwidth is 1000 MB/s or the US where the maximum is 50 MB/s? I would take government intervention any day, because if the government abuses its power, citizenry have recourse through our democratic system (as lacking as that may be). If a private company abuses its power, it is much harder to do anything about it and the private company has no interest in the general public welfare--only its bottom line. 

I doubt any public telecommunications company would ever consider cutting the bandwidth for Peer-to-Peer activities like Comcast did. I doubt that net neutrality would even be an issue if we had a nationalized system. What I am sure is that people in underserved rural and urban poor communities would have much better access to the internet. If you guys really believe that the private sector has done such a stellar job of connecting people to the internet, how do you explain the fact that those private companies actively lobbied to stop public Wireless internet like Philadelphia has in communities across the country. A nationalized telecoms company wouldn&#039;t dare do that kind of lobbying and if it did, the citizen outrage would quickly stop it. In contrast nobody seems to be nailing Comcast, AT&amp;T, etc to the wall for their atrocious lobbying, because we expect private companies to act against the public interest. 

Nationalization is no panacea, but when you have a functioning democracy which can curb any potential abuses, it works much better than loosely regulated privatized systems. Frankly, I don&#039;t understand the paranoia about the government from free market ideologues, yet the the myopia and downright blindness toward private sector abuses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You free market advocates seem to always put ideology before empirical reality. What the numbers show is that citizens who live in countries which either nationalize their telecommunications or place them under heavy government regulation get the best internet service. The US has fallen from 4th to 15th in terms of percentage of the population which has broadband internet access because our internet services aren&#8217;t nationalized and/or under enough government regulation. </p>
<p>You guys seem to have an irrational fear of the government, without realizing that governments are composed of their citizenry and they reflect both the virtues and faults of their citizens. If the citizens are lazy and passive, governments mismanage and abuse their power, but in countries where the citizenry take an active role and demand results from their governments, they get better services at a cheaper cost. Would you rather live in Japan where the maximum bandwidth is 1000 MB/s or the US where the maximum is 50 MB/s? I would take government intervention any day, because if the government abuses its power, citizenry have recourse through our democratic system (as lacking as that may be). If a private company abuses its power, it is much harder to do anything about it and the private company has no interest in the general public welfare&#8211;only its bottom line. </p>
<p>I doubt any public telecommunications company would ever consider cutting the bandwidth for Peer-to-Peer activities like Comcast did. I doubt that net neutrality would even be an issue if we had a nationalized system. What I am sure is that people in underserved rural and urban poor communities would have much better access to the internet. If you guys really believe that the private sector has done such a stellar job of connecting people to the internet, how do you explain the fact that those private companies actively lobbied to stop public Wireless internet like Philadelphia has in communities across the country. A nationalized telecoms company wouldn&#8217;t dare do that kind of lobbying and if it did, the citizen outrage would quickly stop it. In contrast nobody seems to be nailing Comcast, AT&amp;T, etc to the wall for their atrocious lobbying, because we expect private companies to act against the public interest. </p>
<p>Nationalization is no panacea, but when you have a functioning democracy which can curb any potential abuses, it works much better than loosely regulated privatized systems. Frankly, I don&#8217;t understand the paranoia about the government from free market ideologues, yet the the myopia and downright blindness toward private sector abuses.</p>
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		<title>By: Bookmarks about Pew</title>
		<link>http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/comment-page-1/#comment-714</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookmarks about Pew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 05:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/#comment-714</guid>
		<description>[...] - bookmarked by 5 members originally found by pantycristo on 2008-09-18  Despite Good News About Broadband Adoption, Vint Cerf Calls for ...  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8211; bookmarked by 5 members originally found by pantycristo on 2008-09-18  Despite Good News About Broadband Adoption, Vint Cerf Calls for &#8230;  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kung Fu Quip &#187; The GOP, Online Politics, and Internet Regulation</title>
		<link>http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/comment-page-1/#comment-491</link>
		<dc:creator>Kung Fu Quip &#187; The GOP, Online Politics, and Internet Regulation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 03:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/#comment-491</guid>
		<description>[...] short answer is absolutely nothing. But David is part of a group called Internet For Everyone whose founders have suggested nationalization of the Internet. The list of his coalition partners reads like a who&#8217;s who of the left. ACLU, ACORN, Care2, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] short answer is absolutely nothing. But David is part of a group called Internet For Everyone whose founders have suggested nationalization of the Internet. The list of his coalition partners reads like a who&#8217;s who of the left. ACLU, ACORN, Care2, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: CableTechTalk &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Malik, Bennett, Google and Yahoo, Oh My!</title>
		<link>http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/comment-page-1/#comment-481</link>
		<dc:creator>CableTechTalk &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Malik, Bennett, Google and Yahoo, Oh My!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:05:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/#comment-481</guid>
		<description>[...] Google&#8217;s renewed interest in net neutrality (a concept it had begun to walk away from, until Cerf&#8217;s recent comments implying a preference for nationalization) may be an effort at drawing attention away from the Google-Yahoo deal. Nearing an agreement with [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Google&#8217;s renewed interest in net neutrality (a concept it had begun to walk away from, until Cerf&#8217;s recent comments implying a preference for nationalization) may be an effort at drawing attention away from the Google-Yahoo deal. Nearing an agreement with [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wyatt Ditzler</title>
		<link>http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/comment-page-1/#comment-480</link>
		<dc:creator>Wyatt Ditzler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 18:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/#comment-480</guid>
		<description>What about localisation of the Internet guys? Calling attention to the cities and municipalities that are attempting to build their own, utility styled, fiber networks? 

http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLT.jsp?id=1202422769174&amp;rss=ltn

http://scrawford.net/blog/it-costs-more/1203/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about localisation of the Internet guys? Calling attention to the cities and municipalities that are attempting to build their own, utility styled, fiber networks? </p>
<p><a href="http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLT.jsp?id=1202422769174&amp;rss=ltn" rel="nofollow">http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLT.jsp?id=1202422769174&amp;rss=ltn</a></p>
<p><a href="http://scrawford.net/blog/it-costs-more/1203/" rel="nofollow">http://scrawford.net/blog/it-costs-more/1203/</a></p>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/comment-page-1/#comment-479</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/#comment-479</guid>
		<description>No, I would just require open access at equal prices for anyone wanting to start a service over the wires or cables, or fibers.  As it used to be until the telcos lobbied to let them charge others MORE for the whole sale side.   That is why I no longer have available over 30 LOCAL ISP providers in my town.  Only ONE at high speed.   (satellite is nonsense due to latency and slow speed-so its a non factor)  DSL in some places is available, but its far slower than the cable.  And the new ATT fiber system is CHERRY PICKING as usual.  With the new Franchise given to them STATE wide rather than by the city due to their lobbying.  They NO LONGER ARE REQUIRED to provide service to EVERY HOME IN THE CITY.  Only to the high end developments.

Well, where I used to live I actually had 5 options for electricity service.   I had ONE wire to my home....and I could pick from one of FIVE companies to provide electricity.   A generic maintenance company maintained the wires but the power could be bought from many companies.   

Not the case where I am now, but the idea is the same.   And the &quot;size&quot; of the product is of no matter.  The ideas is the same.   They have a captive audience SOLELY BASED ON ACCESS not on quality of product or service...

And here is your wonderful telecom companies now SUING small cities that are left out and now building their own broadband system.   Dont want that competition that would be open.

http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLT.jsp?id=1202422769174&amp;rss=ltn

I guess we will have to part on different takes on this.  Im a Net Neutality, open source guy.  Open wired with access to all the providers.  Not the walled of garden stuff.  For craps sake some of the new Sony TV will stream content....but ONLY from Sony.   Not gonna happen at my house.  thanks

Why do you think the Media companies want to force manufacturers to do the removal of the analog outputs on your TV.   So you cant tape anything.   They have wanted to get around the 1970&#039;s Sony Betamax decision and have complete control of the hardware also.

Sony is especially dangerous...they are both a content maker and a hardware maker.    Guess whose content you will have wonderful access to on your Sony TV.   Any takers on this one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I would just require open access at equal prices for anyone wanting to start a service over the wires or cables, or fibers.  As it used to be until the telcos lobbied to let them charge others MORE for the whole sale side.   That is why I no longer have available over 30 LOCAL ISP providers in my town.  Only ONE at high speed.   (satellite is nonsense due to latency and slow speed-so its a non factor)  DSL in some places is available, but its far slower than the cable.  And the new ATT fiber system is CHERRY PICKING as usual.  With the new Franchise given to them STATE wide rather than by the city due to their lobbying.  They NO LONGER ARE REQUIRED to provide service to EVERY HOME IN THE CITY.  Only to the high end developments.</p>
<p>Well, where I used to live I actually had 5 options for electricity service.   I had ONE wire to my home&#8230;.and I could pick from one of FIVE companies to provide electricity.   A generic maintenance company maintained the wires but the power could be bought from many companies.   </p>
<p>Not the case where I am now, but the idea is the same.   And the &#8220;size&#8221; of the product is of no matter.  The ideas is the same.   They have a captive audience SOLELY BASED ON ACCESS not on quality of product or service&#8230;</p>
<p>And here is your wonderful telecom companies now SUING small cities that are left out and now building their own broadband system.   Dont want that competition that would be open.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLT.jsp?id=1202422769174&amp;rss=ltn" rel="nofollow">http://www.law.com/jsp/legaltechnology/pubArticleLT.jsp?id=1202422769174&amp;rss=ltn</a></p>
<p>I guess we will have to part on different takes on this.  Im a Net Neutality, open source guy.  Open wired with access to all the providers.  Not the walled of garden stuff.  For craps sake some of the new Sony TV will stream content&#8230;.but ONLY from Sony.   Not gonna happen at my house.  thanks</p>
<p>Why do you think the Media companies want to force manufacturers to do the removal of the analog outputs on your TV.   So you cant tape anything.   They have wanted to get around the 1970&#8217;s Sony Betamax decision and have complete control of the hardware also.</p>
<p>Sony is especially dangerous&#8230;they are both a content maker and a hardware maker.    Guess whose content you will have wonderful access to on your Sony TV.   Any takers on this one.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Turk</title>
		<link>http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/comment-page-1/#comment-478</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Turk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 03:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/#comment-478</guid>
		<description>You can call it what you want, but it still amounts to the government seizing private property and handing it over to someone else. I&#039;m not a constitutional scholar, but I don&#039;t see any justification for an eminent domain claim here simply because you&#039;d prefer the market worked differently.

The road analogy is actually pretty poor for the simple reason that roads require a huge amount of space, and as a result running multiple road systems managed by private owners is impractical.  Given the wide array of possible ways to deliver broadband either in use or under development (wi-max, BPL, satellite, HFC, FTTH, etc) space isn&#039;t the same kind of limitation.  As a result, Ken&#039;s question stands.  Do you propose to seize satellite systems for delivering broadband?  What about BPL?  Are you going to halt all development of other technologies since those would be other &quot;roads&quot; to your house?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can call it what you want, but it still amounts to the government seizing private property and handing it over to someone else. I&#8217;m not a constitutional scholar, but I don&#8217;t see any justification for an eminent domain claim here simply because you&#8217;d prefer the market worked differently.</p>
<p>The road analogy is actually pretty poor for the simple reason that roads require a huge amount of space, and as a result running multiple road systems managed by private owners is impractical.  Given the wide array of possible ways to deliver broadband either in use or under development (wi-max, BPL, satellite, HFC, FTTH, etc) space isn&#8217;t the same kind of limitation.  As a result, Ken&#8217;s question stands.  Do you propose to seize satellite systems for delivering broadband?  What about BPL?  Are you going to halt all development of other technologies since those would be other &#8220;roads&#8221; to your house?</p>
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		<title>By: bill</title>
		<link>http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/comment-page-1/#comment-477</link>
		<dc:creator>bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 22:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/#comment-477</guid>
		<description>Apparently we have different ideas of &quot;nationalization&quot;  Mine is that its actually RAN BY THE GOV.   But forcing the telcos to disgorge ownership of the wires to another COMPANY and have them run it is not.

This company would be solely a wire management co with no service allowed of any kind.  Then turn all the telcos and cablecos loose to provide and invent any service they can come up with.  


Lets use your Road analogy.

I dont want any CONTENT or SERVICE to own the road to my home.  That is all im interested in. The same as I dont want FORD to own the road.  

Currently, yes the gov owns the road, but that is being changed in many states and they are being sold as toll roads.  But I can use ANY vehicle from any manufacturer.  and the price is the same other than fees for larger vehicles

We can sell the roads to private people as is being done now in a lot of states.  But would YOU let GM own the road and control what car gets to drive on it.   Or perhaps charge you more to drive your Ford on it.

Not good. I want access to the wires as a utility.   

But if the woderful Telco and Cableco want to open up their wires at wholesale rates to all comers ....then lets roll.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently we have different ideas of &#8220;nationalization&#8221;  Mine is that its actually RAN BY THE GOV.   But forcing the telcos to disgorge ownership of the wires to another COMPANY and have them run it is not.</p>
<p>This company would be solely a wire management co with no service allowed of any kind.  Then turn all the telcos and cablecos loose to provide and invent any service they can come up with.  </p>
<p>Lets use your Road analogy.</p>
<p>I dont want any CONTENT or SERVICE to own the road to my home.  That is all im interested in. The same as I dont want FORD to own the road.  </p>
<p>Currently, yes the gov owns the road, but that is being changed in many states and they are being sold as toll roads.  But I can use ANY vehicle from any manufacturer.  and the price is the same other than fees for larger vehicles</p>
<p>We can sell the roads to private people as is being done now in a lot of states.  But would YOU let GM own the road and control what car gets to drive on it.   Or perhaps charge you more to drive your Ford on it.</p>
<p>Not good. I want access to the wires as a utility.   </p>
<p>But if the woderful Telco and Cableco want to open up their wires at wholesale rates to all comers &#8230;.then lets roll.</p>
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		<title>By: Wyatt Ditzler</title>
		<link>http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/comment-page-1/#comment-476</link>
		<dc:creator>Wyatt Ditzler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cabletechtalk.com/news-items/2008/07/05/despite-good-news-about-broadband-adoption-vint-cerf-calls-for-nationalization-sort-of-maybe-a-little-bit/#comment-476</guid>
		<description>Michael et all, great discussion. I am staying away from the nationalisation bit. However I did want to comment on one of your previous comment Michael. In the post retorted that things were not done on the back of taxpayer subsidies. Earlier in the original post you mentioned the Farm Bill and the appropriate use of government to provide incentives to reach the unserved and under served.

I don&#039;t see how the distinction between a subsidy and an incentive. Each can still provide benefit to the organization. However, that is not completely my point.

The numbers from Pew are interesting, and for once I don&#039;t think we need to argue about how the numbers were obtained; versus our OCED debates. Touching back on the unserved and under served, do those labels include low-income families that seem to be loosing (slightly) connectivity? Are we only providing incentives for new &#039;pipes&#039; or also new users?

Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael et all, great discussion. I am staying away from the nationalisation bit. However I did want to comment on one of your previous comment Michael. In the post retorted that things were not done on the back of taxpayer subsidies. Earlier in the original post you mentioned the Farm Bill and the appropriate use of government to provide incentives to reach the unserved and under served.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see how the distinction between a subsidy and an incentive. Each can still provide benefit to the organization. However, that is not completely my point.</p>
<p>The numbers from Pew are interesting, and for once I don&#8217;t think we need to argue about how the numbers were obtained; versus our OCED debates. Touching back on the unserved and under served, do those labels include low-income families that seem to be loosing (slightly) connectivity? Are we only providing incentives for new &#8216;pipes&#8217; or also new users?</p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
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